Update: New photos, and full video coverage, at The Silent Majority.
Today I decided to return to my old stomping grounds at Brooklyn College in order to witness a lecture delivered by acclaimed polemicist, writer, political and human rights activist, and former leader of the new left, David Horowitz. Invited to speak by student leader Yosef Sobel, and sponsored by Professor Langbert-both of whom can be seen below-Mr. Horowitz delivered an impassioned, but unerringly rational, defense of freedom of speech, pluralism, and diversity, all values under attack in the Middle East and on American campuses-the primary theme of the evening. 
He began by noting the extreme impediments he-and the people who attended his lecture-had to overcome in order to simply be in attendance. A particularly sarcastic Muslim student interrupted his introductory remarks-something that would recur approximately a dozen times during his hour long speech-to ask him why such security measures were necessary. His cogent response that these steps were “what checkpoints are about, making people feel safer,” brought a thunderous round of applause from the audience. I can attest to the thoroughness of the examination each person had to undergo before being admitted to the event. If only the federal government were as efficacious and watchful as the people providing security for David Horowitz, we wouldn’t even have to worry about potential domestic terror attacks.
Mr. Horowitz noted the planned-but ultimately abandoned-attempt by the International Socialist Organization to thwart his speech, making the point that college campuses have now become “the political base of the fascist left in this country,” and asserting that they were imperiling the foundation of our freedoms, which is the “ability to disagree in a civil manner.” This fact was reinforced by the spectacle of repeated disruptions to his speech by Muslim students, possibly members of a campus chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood offshoot known as the Muslim Students Association. The man seen below, who refused to condemn Hamas when confronted by Horowitz during the concluding part of his post-speech Q&A, is a perfect illustration of the intolerance pro-Israel, pro-American students face on a daily basis.
He was assisted in his failed effort at sabotaging Brooklyn College’s guest speaker by several female Muslims seated at the back of the audience.
Despite the adversarial nature of this segment of the audience, David Horowitz was able to continue with his presentation, the second part of which gave those willing to listen a brief history lesson in the contemporary Middle East, which he correctly pointed out was a colonial creation resulting from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, a fact that most pro-Palestinian, anti-Israeli radicals refuse to admit, even as they deny the historic ties of Jews to the Holy Land.
Refuting the libelous accusation that Israel, a land where Arab-Muslims enjoy more rights and freedoms than anywhere else on the planet, is somehow an “apartheid state,” he proclaimed that the opposite is the case, and that “the whole Arab Middle East is apartheid,” bolstering his assertion by recounting the eviction of Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip by Hamas, which destroyed their agricultural equipment-equipment that was responsible for providing Gaza with 10 percent of its Gross National Product.
He linked the two strands of his argument together by describing the enormous obstacles he encountered when attempting to place an ad exploring the true nature of the Islamic Middle East in the UC Daily Bruin-the official campus newspaper of UCLA-whose editors labeled the proposed ad defamatory. He then questioned the Daily Bruin representative as to how delineating the actual stance of Hezbollah, Hamas, and Palestinian and Egyptian clerics was beyond the pale, while the regular vituperation directed against Israel and Jews was halal. Of course, he never received a satisfactory answer to his question. However, you can visit the Palestinian Wall of Lies and judge for yourself the validity of the accusations routinely lodged by ”Israeli apartheid” campaigners during their week of denunciation and vitriol.
One of the chief laments of David Horowitz throughout his speech was the lack of support he receives from mainstream, institutionalized Judaism within the United States. He cited as a glaring example of this problem campus Hillels, which should be a defensive bulwark against pro-Islamic, anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda, yet routinely refuse to engage in the war that’s being waged against them by radical leftists and organizations such as the Muslim Students Association. He also broadened his attack to include the “interfaith” organizations that attempt to reach out to radical Muslim organizations, notwithstanding their checkered history.
The overall impression I had of the event, despite the repeated disruptions by anti-Horowitz, anti-Israel and anti-American agitators planted liberally throughout the auditorium, and a very pessimistic message delivered by the keynote speaker, was one of perseverance. David Horowitz reiterated the necessity of fighting for your beliefs, in spite of the long odds and remote chance of success, and standing up for classical liberalism and the ideals upon which our nation’s founding fathers established this country. I went away from the evening undeterred and hopeful that there remained a cadre of young students willing to engage in intellectual combat in order to see what they believe is right prevails, both on their own college campus and within the country as a whole.
Why didn’t someone evict the people trying to disrupt the meeting?
I was there last night. I was denied entry, and thrown off campus because I had my Israeli flag with me. I was singled out by the female campus security officer who saw my folded up flag, and assumed what it was and told I could not open that up. Although I was shouted at by a Muslim woman as she entered the auditorium, because she heard me telling the police officer wanding me that I’d wear it around my neck instead, like “they” did, since I was not allowed to open it up, and she didn’t like this, I was then pulled aside and told I could not enter. I kept asking for a reason and told i had to leave. As I walked down the hallway with the campus security officer, (I have her name but will with hold at this time) I stopped and again asked for the reason I was not allowed to wear my Israeli flag around my neck, what I did that was wrong and was repeatedly denied answers. She then dug her fingers into my upper left arm trying to drag me off campus. She was not able to move me, as I’m stronger than I look and I stood there repeating LOUDLY, “I’m Jewish. What did I do wrong? Why can’t I wear my flag? Why are you making me leave? I’m on the approved guest list.” I knew I would not win at this point but was hoping that by then and only then creating a scene that I would have someone come help me. It didn’t not happen. Since you write “David Horowitz reiterated the necessity of fighting for your beliefs, in spite of the long odds and remote chance of success, and standing up for classical liberalism and the ideals upon which our nation’s founding fathers established this country” I want to stress this is all I was attempting to do and I was physically assaulted and thrown off campus for it. A female, single, Jewish supporter.
Robert,
Thank you for the fair and unbiased coverage of the Boston College presentation by David Horowitz, a truely enlightened liberal intelectual who speaks honestly from personal experience. We wish more people such as yourself would decide to be bold in the face of the political correctness surrounding events where socialist-extremist students with radical agendas and dangerous viewpoints in campuses across America have been allowed, and even encouraged to disrupt and discourage free speech from lecturers with conservative bodies of work and political backgrounds, i.e. Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, etc.
dj – dallas,tx
“Why didn’t someone try to evict the people trying to disrupt the meeting?”
That’s a good question. That’s what I would have done if it were up to me. My own opinion is that the disruptions were contained-and since Mr. Horowitz has dealt with infiltrators like these before, he knew how to deal with them properly. Although they were an irritant, I don’t think they were able to accomplish their chief goal, i.e. stopping his message from being heard.
I’m sorry to hear that, Lauren. Did the security officer give you any reason why you weren’t being admitted to the library? I know that some people who hadn’t RSVP’d weren’t allowed to enter the auditorium. I myself had an I.D. confiscated before I was allowed to enter the library.
I was at Mr. Horowitz’ presentation at Brooklyn College. Mr. Horowitz demonstrated extreme knowledge and understanding of the situation in the Middle East and regarding hatred of the United States by extremists. He is not an Islamaphobe, as some contend, but someone who sees things clearly. He is willing to vilify Jewish extremists and idiots as much as any other extremists and idiots. He seems to really be bugged by people that refuse to open their minds and listen.
One of the purposes of a college is to have different ideas and views presented and to encourage people to think. In large part this was Mr. Horowitz’ purpose. It was evident from some of the comments and questions that some came with their ideas and refused to even allow for the possibility that their ideas may be based on falsehoods. I got the sensation that they came in with a list of prepared questions and it didn’t matter what Mr. Horowitz said. Had Mr. Horowitz recited Shakespearean Sonnets for an hour they would have had the same questions and comments.
I was struck by his manner of speech. Although he only spoke the truth, at times it seemed that his manner of speech was either designed to be provocative or he just doesn’t care what people think. He might say that this is his way of waking people up to the truth.
To those who couldn’t get in: Security was very, very tight. The last thing BC administration wanted was to be the object of news stories about violence on campus. they meted out strict security to both supporters and detractors. Some individual officers may have gone a bit overboard – but that was for everyone’s protection.
He does have a very distinctive manner of speech, and I did notice that at times he became more voluble when speaking about certain topics. Although, on balance, I thought he did a good job of maintaining his composure, especially when confronted by some of the plants.
For the record, this talk was delivered at Brooklyn College, not Boston College, although they do share similar initials.
Professor Langbert,
http://mitchell-langbert.blogspot.com/2011/03/i-thank-horowitz-horowitz-thanks-us.html
And David Horowitz have both weighed in on last night’s event.
http://frontpagemag.com/2011/03/11/its-time-for-the-jews-to-stand-up-for-themselves
Thanks for the detailed article and also the images. Lauren’s experience is very interesting and very telling. Political correctness and plain fear are causing discrimination against non-Muslims.
It is intimidating at times. I’m no longer a student, but I can imagine the difficulty you have standing against the the tide of professors and students who want to squelch your dissenting views. When I went to Brooklyn College, the biggest controversy was the tenure battle of (K.C.) Johnson, a renowned American history professor who was being punished for his politically incorrect viewpoints.
To answer the question here to me: I was NEVER given a reason. i kept asking for one. I was on the list, already approved. I had already gone through both checkpoints. I personally know the reason. But she would not give it to me and wanted me to leave quietly. That wasn’t going to happen. I did get loud and wanted people to hear what she was doing to me. She profiled me, the Jew with the Israeli flag. I was alone, white, look younger than I am and a JEW! She did not tell anyone else they couldn’t open or wear their political symbols. ONLY ME. I let anyone in earshot hear that she was kicking a Jew off campus for wanting to wear the Israeli flag. I kept asking loudly why I wasn’t allowed to do so and what did I do wrong. I repeated over and over that I was on the approved guest list and a Jew, a supporter of Horowitz.
In case anyone wants to watch the entirety of Mr. Horowitz’s speech, NewsRealBlog has posted it on their website .
Props to my dear friend Pamela Hall for doing a fantastic job filming the evening’s festivities.
All I can say to the above comments and to this despicable, ignorant man is, you need to educate yourselves before you open your mouths to say such disgusting, vile, untrue, hateful things against Arabs, Muslims and the Middle East in general OR even condone it. His speech was so unbelievably blasphemous and full of ignorance, I am in shock. I have never heard of anything more untrue being spoken of in my life. I am a proud Muslim and I am a proud American. I am friends with a great number of Arabs and an even greater number of Muslims, and not a single one of them would do such terrible things that this man accused them of doing and would never condone it. Islam does not condone it. What is so unfair is how Muslims are always the targets of bigotry when American and Israeli non Muslims have so much blood on their hands from killing innocent civilians including children in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine. Before you accuse Islam of anything, or generalize all Arabs and Muslims just because of a few, read the Quraan and what our God tells us. Every word spoken out of this odious man’s mouth is a testament to the fact that American Islamophobes who say they are protecting their country and upholding its values are the ones who are not following their own constitution OR the declaration of independance or even the Bill of Rights, which after make our America. Think before you speak. Get educated on the matter first.
His speech was so unbelievably blasphemous…
You can not blaspheme a God in which you do not believe, nor a prophet whose visions you think are nothing more than fantasies devised by a 7th Century Arabian warlord who wanted to conquer the Arabian peninsula. The problem with Islam is that it believes it can impose its particularistic dogmas universally, including inside of the United States. However, we have something called the 1st Amendment, which allows anyone to say anything he or she wants to, even if it contradicts the values of an illiterate, 7th century Arabian warlord who you happen to worship.
And for the record, there is no such nation as “Palestine.” Nor was there ever such a nation. If you had bothered to listen to Mr. Horowitz’s speech, instead of spending the time you could have listened to his lecture building a well of righteous, yet wholly contrived, indignation, you would have known that.
Wow. The true religion of Islam and our Prophets are not all you are lacking in education about. You have got that piece of history wrong too – it is actually Israel that does not exist. Palestine was the land promised to the people of Moses. What is now Israel, is actually stolen land from Palestine. Again, you have a bit of reading to do don’t you? I am not going to listen to Horowitz’ speech to know that, I will only look at the facts. You and Horowitz need a history lesson as well as a lesson on what Islam really is. You know what, I could be here all day arguing with you, contradicting your above comments with FACTS not Horowitz’ speech, but I have better things to do. Like pray for your guidance. We only believe in one God. We obey whatever this one God orders us to do. And if He has sent us a Messenger/Prophet to guide us, we are obliged to follow his teachings too, as they come from God Himself. If you don’t believe me, go read the Bible, the Torah, or the Quran. All are the Word of God, all mention the Prophets. See, I have Freedom of Speech too, being a fellow American. And you by the way, have very conveniently mentioned the First Amendment and left out all the others. Which include religious tolerance shown by all Americans to one another. If *I* have shown any religious intolerance, I am sorry. But my aim here was just to speak against this blasphemy, and convey MY opinion, as well as what my religion tells me to do. Tell me, I am the Muslim here and friend to lots of Arabs, who would know better about Islam, you or me? You honestly need to jam your hype, I would never ‘blaspheme’ my own God. God forbid. Again, read up on what you’re accusing me and my religion of before you speak.
I will only look at the facts…
How ironic, considering the two contentless screeds you’ve posted here.
Jews were present in Israel thousands of years before Mohammed was born. There have been extant Jewish communities in what’s known now as the “West Bank” throughout its occupation by the Ottoman Empire.
Read, and learn:
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/presence.html
…and left out the others. Which include religious tolerance shown by all Americans to one another.
Please kindly point me to the amendment to the Constitution which commands me to “tolerate” any religion. I have an inkling as to which one you think I should be compelled to tolerate, but I’ll let you speak for yourself, since you’re obviously a constitutional scholar on par with the late Joseph Story.
1)The guy who spoke is NOT Muslim- which proves a) you are a liar, b) you are generalizing to make yourself sound plausible, c) he is a decent human being standing up for ALL people’s rights not just his own.
He also was NEVER asked to condemn Hamas- liar.
2)By saying Muslims hate Jews and spreading all these lies about them, all Horowitz is doing is what he says Muslims do. He hates Muslims and is accusing them of hating Jews. Hypocrisy anyone?
3) WE DO NOT AVE AN MSA ON CAMPUS- which proves again how ignorant you are and what a liar you are.
4) Mr. Genius Perry- Jews believe in the same God as Muslims so denying the God Muslims believe in is denying their own God.
5) Yes the SEMITES were there, in Palestine, hundreds of years ago. If you were smart you’d know that Arabs and Jews AKA Semites are the SAME people who CAME FROM the SAME people following the SAME prophets Jacob and those after him. LEARN YOUR HISTORY!
6) If Muslims only cared about conquering and did so with religious intolerance, then why is it a fact of history that Jewish scholars ONLY flourished under Muslim rule in Spain? Could it be that Muslims and Jews both had religious tolerance and worked together in a productive society? LEARN YOUR HISTORY!
Also, why is it that Muslims and Jews lived together PERFECTLY FINE AND PEACEFULLY before 1948 when the Israelis MASSACRED and kicked out the Palestinians and wiped off 500 Palestinian villages in order to make room for the European Jews that no one else would allow into THEIR countries after WWII?
YES the ARAB JEWS were there from hundreds of years ago but NOT the European and American Jews that are moving in now and have been since the “creation” of Israel.
LEARN YOUR HISTORY!
7) If there was no such thing as “Palestine,” Mr. Genius, then who is Horowitz referring to when he says Palestinians? MORON!
And why does Hertzl, the father of zionism, refer to that land as PALESTINE?!
LEARN YOUR HISTORY!
8) Lauren- GROW UP & PLEASE STOP BEING SUCH A MORON! I think it rubs off on you people. Being Israeli and being a Jew and not equal or the same therefore if you had an Israeli flag, IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU BEING JEWISH! When will you people stop crying anti-semite, anti-Jewish when in fact there is NO RELATION to what you got in trouble for?!
9)Zionist does NOT equal Israeli and they both do NOT equal Jewish. PICK UP A DICTIONARY!
10) Where exactly does it say that MSA is a spin-off of the Muslim Brotherhood and DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD IS?!!!!
Check your facts BEFORE you OPEN your mouths!!!
You can’t blame muslims who were taught from birth a twisted history of the world as it applies to them. When you constantly hear the same lies, distortions, and misleading history as they do, it is impossible for them to believe anything so different as what actually happened…of which there is plenty of proof in ancient writings and artifacts. But, since ALL MUSLIMS believe in what is written in the Koran, which was written thousands of years after the Jews first learned to believe in one G-d, it doesn’t matter to them. They have revised history to suit their own bible, and written in the koran is that it is just fine to lie to non believers if it achieves their ends.
It may be lies to us, but it is truth to them.
“…he is a decent human being standing up for ALL people’s rights not just his own.”
This merely serves to illustrate your warped value system. No one who is a truly decent human being would have anything but utter contempt for Hamas, whose platform is a mirror image of the NSDAP’s in Nazi Era Gemany.
Secondly, whether he is a Muslim or merely a radical socialist who sympathizes with Islamist fanatics is immaterial to this discussion. He is a foot soldier in global jihad, as Mr. Horowitz pointed out during his illuminating lecture.
“He also was NEVER asked to condemn Hamas- liar.”
Incorrect. Watch the video footage which I posted above and you’ll realize how absurd your assertion is. He was asked point-blank to condemn Hamas and he demurred.
“WE DO NOT AVE AN MSA ON CAMPUS.”
Your indignation doesn’t compensate for your ignorance, sorry.
http://students.brooklyn.cuny.edu/text/direct/islamic.htm
As for point #5, I never claimed that Arabs weren’t living in Israel prior to the creation of the modern Jewish state. I merely asserted that MUSLIMS did not exist in any form within Judea or Samaria, the so-called occupied territories, or anywhere else in Israel, until many millennia after the arrival of Jews.
If by “peaceful” co-existence you mean periodic pograms directed against the Jewish population, then yes, Israel was very “peaceful” before 1948. And unlike the fictitious “massacres” of “Palestinians,” the slaughter of native Jews was all to real.
http://www.zionism-israel.com/Hebron_Massacre1929.htm
As to the origin of the Muslim Students Association, I will give you a little history lesson, by way of Diana West, since you seem to be in dire need of some proper education:
http://bigpeace.com/teamb/2010/11/14/whos-who-in-the-american-muslim-brotherhood/
As we have seen, the Muslim Student Association (MSA) was the first Muslim Brotherhood entity formed in the United States at the University of Illinois, Urbana campus in 1962-63. The MSA has chapters at nearly every major college and university campus in the United States making it the most visible and influential of all Islamic student organizations in North America. The MSA is a point of recruitment for the Muslim Brotherhood and for jihadis.The MSA’s own website previously noted that all major Muslim organizations in America grew out of the MSA.
1) Hamas and Islam are not the same thing- he stood up for Muslims therefore he is tolerant and you need a dictionary
2) What does Hamas do that you want people to condemn? the killing of innocent civilians because Israel does the same therefore if you want to condemn Hamas then condemn Israel as well.
Also, that is the only ISSUE you have with Hamas and disregard everything else they do. It is forbidden in Islam to kill innocent people and the prophet even goes so far as to say breaking the branches of trees or cutting them down on your way or during your fight in a war.. therefore YES ALL MUSLIMS CONDEMN the killing of innocent people. Just because Muslims do these things DOES NOT make it a part of the religion which CLEARLY forbids it. If a muslim does not condemn it, then they are wrong NOT the religion. When a Christian shoots up a mall, no one says Christianity made him do it EVEN if he screamed IN THE NAME OF GOD while doing it. The religion is free from the acts of indecency just as Islam is.
3) PICK UP A DICTIONARY and learn what Jihad is because CLEARLY you DO NOT know. Jihad means struggle – ANY struggle and it is mostly used in a struggle against oneself to fight off certain desires such as anger. I don’t know you think Jihad is but accusing someone of being pro-jihad would be a compliment. It means they show discipline.
4) CLEARLY you need to go back and read- we have an ISLAMIC SOCIETY NOT AN MSA! An MSA is a Muslims student association which is an organization. Islamic Society is NOT the same thing hence it has a different name. Now you are REALLY generalizing ALL Muslims!
5) Claiming Muslims didn’t exist is subjective to the religion. Muslims consider the “jews” who followed Moses, Abraham, and all other prophets to be “muslims” because it was all one religion, following one God, following all the prophets. Judaism stops at Moses whereas Islam continues to Jesus and ends at Muhammad- the seal of the prophets. Muslim/Jew is subjective to their religion therefore saying either is incorrect is incorrect.
6) The Holy Land is known to be a place where there has ALWAYS been bloodshed- I wont deny that there were attacks on Jews but you cannot deny the opposite occurring- either way there was no massacre like that done in 1948. Also the idea of Zionism and getting rid of all the Palestinians existed since 1800.
7) And as for your “history lesson” – all there is in that article is ACCUSATIONS but NO PROOF. just because she CLAIMS there are a spin-off of the Muslim Brotherhood does not make it true. If it were, she would be able to prove it. there is no such thing as “deleted proof” because you can find ANYTHING if you do your research.
“Claiming Muslims didn’t exist is subjective to the religion. Muslims consider the “jews” who followed Moses, Abraham, and all other prophets to be “muslims” because it was all one religion, following one God, following all the prophets. Judaism stops at Moses whereas Islam continues to Jesus and ends at Muhammad- the seal of the prophets. Muslim/Jew is subjective to their religion therefore saying either is incorrect is incorrect.”
They can claim it all they like, but people who do not follow Islam are not Muslims. Muslims are the bigoted and subjective ones, not those who refuse to believe in their false and non-existent Allah and epileptic child-marrying “prophet” Muhammad.
Jonas-you don’t make any sense, stop typing
Typical. Can’t refute an argument so you want someone else to be quiet.
Can’t take the pressure of someone who knows what they’re talking about can you?
What a jerk.
Kaffiyah: Muhammad the “prophet” of Islam was an epileptic. He was known to have seizures. Islamic sources verify this. Furthermore, he married a child-bride, Aisha, when she was the age of 6, then consummated (meaning to have sex with) that marriage at the age of 9. Islamic sources also verify this, as well.
I am not a Muslim, regardless of the fact that Muslims “consider” me to be one by birth. If they want to call me a Muslim, I’m going to call them bigoted scumbags and throw their shithead “prophet” and fake “Allah” back at their faces. I am not a Muslim and I never will be because Muhammad was a fraud and Allah doesn’t exist.
If Allah does not exist then neither would u. explain your existence and how it came about. It’s not possible without God. Any logical person knows that.
Why would a Muslim consider you to be a Muslim if you don’t consider yourself as one? that does not make sense. anyone who does not want to be Muslim or consider themselves to be a muslim is not one.
As far as Muhammad, he had revelations and yes he did used to pass out but was not epileptic. He received revelation in tht way or sometimes in dreams etc. Just as we believe moses went to a mountain, spoke to God, and came back with the ten commandments. They all received some sort of revelation in some sort of miracle.
As far as a “child-bride,” there are different Hadith (Islamic sources) that have different ages therefore no one really knows how old she was. Secondly, 1400 years ago women were women at a MUCH younger age than we consider them now. Even the enemies of Muhammad did not call him a pedophile, because back in those times, it was the norm to marry at that age. People did not live as long as we did either. Even today, in many societies such as in many African societies, women are women at age 9 and they get married and have kids and are housewives at that age. It’s in the culture because it is all about how you raise them. If you treat an 9 yr old like an adult and give them responsibilities, they will be adults. Here in the US we baby our youth and tell them they aren’t adults til 21! Even then, men don’t mature until their thirties. If you ask me that’s really sad. Men are men at age 10 in other societies. Each place and time has it’s culture and Norms and you can’t impose yours on others and accuse them of things you don’t understand. If you study European history, it’s the same. By age 16 a girl was considered too old for marriage. That was their norm, not ours. It wouldn’t be acceptable TODAY to Marry a nine yr old but 1400 yrs ago is a different context.
Btw Jonas, you have a beautiful name and are named After a prophet with an amazing story. It entails a struggle that he faced and his only way out was to turn to God and when he did, God took him out of that situation. I think you should Turn to God and ask for His help and guidance and live up to that strong name your parents blessed you with.
I said/meant that Muslims considered the followers of Moses during the time or Moses
and followers of any prophet during the time of the prophet as Muslims. They all follow one religion, one God, one goal. Just like Chistians Jews believe all the ppl before them that followed prophets were also Jews. It is subject to their religion.
“Allah” is a deity that pre-dated Islamic occupation of the Arabian peninsula.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm
What do you think the Kaaba was? It was a shrine to Hubal, which-miraculously enough-suddenly became an object of veneration when Mohammed was trying to cement his political control over tribal adversaries.
Ok, you cannot learn Islam through a non-Muslim and deem it as “fact” unless that person learned from Muslims- Muslims with scholarship that is not ANYONE CLAIMING to be Muslim. I wouldn’t ask a Muslim about Judaism since they are not Jewish. I’d ask a Jew because he would know more. And even if it is a non-Muslim that you are getting information from, you need Muslim sources to prove your claims. if I talk to you about the Christianity, i should be using the Bible as a source or something that compliments it not a book written by a Buddhist. It does not make sense.
wikipedia is a better source than your ridiculous links
That being said and if you read my above comment, Allah the name did exist before Muhammad but not before Islam because Muslims believe that all prophets & followers of prophets are Muslim. they believe Adam is a Muslim, Moses, Noah, Jacob etc. therefore, in Islam, all these prophets also worshiped Allah. Allah the name was there since the time of Adam and so was the religion of Islam. it did not start at the time of Muhammad like most non-Muslims claim. As for the Arab pagans having a god named Allah, that’s all fine and dandy but they took the name from previous Muslims not the other way around.
The kaaba, according to the Islamic faith was built by Abraham and Ishmael therefore it was there and used to worship Allah BEFORE the Arab pagans used it for their god. it was also used by many pagans to worship their gods even during the time of Abraham but that does not mean Muslims did not use it to worship Allah. It was there WAYYY before Muhammad but once he won victory over that city, he made it a place of worship only for Muslims. Before that, he used to pray to Allah there while the pagans worshiped their gods. He was told to make the kaaba a place of worship solely for Muslims by God so that there would only be the worship of the One.
“If Allah does not exist then neither would u. explain your existence and how it came about. It’s not possible without God. Any logical person knows that.”
This is, of course, absolute nonsense. I exist because of evolution and through an extremely lengthy period of billions of years of all sorts of atomic reactions and counter-reactions. A non-existent “Allah” does not have anything to do with that. Prove that Allah exists.
“Why would a Muslim consider you to be a Muslim if you don’t consider yourself as one? that does not make sense. anyone who does not want to be Muslim or consider themselves to be a muslim is not one.”
This directly contradicts an earlier statement you made: “Muslims consider the “jews” who followed Moses, Abraham, and all other prophets to be “muslims” because it was all one religion,”
So which is it? You can’t have it both ways.
All the major authoritative (sahih) ahadith are clear that Aisha was 9 when she had her marriage consummated with Muhammad. This practice is still followed in many Islamic countries, where even if the official marriage age is higher, girls (such as in Afghanistan) are married off to older men all the time.
“you cannot learn Islam through a non-Muslim” Bullshit. This is absolute insanity. Can I not learn about the Roman Empire unless I talk to an actual Roman from those times? You are a damn fool.
Where did those atoms and counter-reactions come from? You existence proves God and so does everything around you. It’s foolish to this that the perfect universe we have that is so precise and specIfic all just came about out of no where. Either way those atoms had to have been created..how can something “just exist.” that’s go illogical and foolish.
I said the “Jews” Who followed Moses were Muslims then they are. How does that relate to YOU not wanting to be Muslim or associating yourself with Islam? You are not a Jew that followed Moses. You don’t even believe in God.
You are not looking at EVERY hadith that was married. Nonetheless we explain how tht was their culture.
What is your point is mentioning Afghanistan? Their practices are wrong and unIslamic..what’s your point? And no offense neither one of us is Afghani so who are we to say what their culture is?- not that i agree with it.
I also said that you must use Islamic sources to get your info. When you learn about the Roman Empire you study what the ROMANS said about it not what Peruvians said! Yes or no?
Sorry for all the errors-I was typing on my iPod
The idea that you need to be a Muslim in order to critically analyze Islamic practices and beliefs is absurd, although I can’t say I’m surprised you think that’s the case. Using that logic, an historian or scientist wouldn’t be able to debunk Al-Isra, even though I’m pretty certain there’s no empirical evidence to support the idea that Mohammed took a trip to heaven on a winged buraq, which I’m pretty sure never existed.
That’s the point. You don’t nexessarily have to be a Muslim but you do need to believe in God and His miracles. How can anyone prove that Jesus was born without a father? They can’t but if they are Muslim or Christian, they accept it because they accept everything God does and says He did.
The same goes for ANY miracles of any prophet of God. You accept it to be true because God said so. Only a believer of God and His power can accept it. Anyone else would try to use “logic.” Logic can’t even explain why people exist..God created us to worship Him. That’s the purpose of our existence. What’s the empirical answer to that? You can’t even answer how the Earth was created and if you’re gonna say a Big Bang thts fine but how did everything MIRACULOUSLY come into perfect order? God.
What type of miracle takes place when a Muslim walks into a crowded market, strapped with a bomb, and blows himself while screaming Allah Akbar?
Blows himself up. Now that was funny!
They can’t but if they are Muslim or Christian, they accept it because they accept everything God does and says He did.
There’s a difference between someone having faith and demanding that everyone else accept that person’s belief system uncritically. This is why Middle Eastern Studies programs are so misguided. They’re premised on the assumption that the only valid thoughts about the subject come from Arab-Muslim inhabitants of the region, or their advocates in academe. Scholarship doesn’t work that way in practice.
May God(Allah – Arabic word meaning The God, used ever since the birth of mankind) Guide all of you ignorant, misguided people, such as G Perry and Jonas, to the right path. May you all see the error of your ways before it is too late.
Whether or not you believe in God or like Islam or the Arabs, learn to respect other human beings. Think of those completely innocent of whatever Horowitz and you accuse them of, and thus stop with the generalizing of Muslims and Arabs…
I don’t think we’re the ones who need to be taught how to respect human life.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/palterrortoc.html
The murderers of this Jewish family, i.e. the Palestinians you valorize, need the tutorial in humanity.
Clube & Mr. Perry, do we really wanna go there?! I’ll spare you the pictures of over 500 kids killed by Israel in Gaza in just 3 weeks. They dropped drone missiles meaning no one can hide behind the excuse of “collateral damage.” they knew exactly who they were aiming at. Go look up images of the effects of white phosphorous when it is used as a weapon against people. It is illegal under international law. Nothing is more inhumane than that.
Mr. Perry, idk why you refer to Islam and Arabs as if they were the same and I don’t know why you are specifically talking about Islam as if the other monotheistic religions aren’t the same way. You can think what you want and no one is forcing you to believe or accept. They accept it because they accept those religions and accept God. If you don’t, you don’t have to. Religious scholarship is attained by studying a religion via its sources and disprove those who are critical. Not everything in religion can be accounted for empirically and that’s why it’s called faith and not something else. There are things that people accept because they accept the faith not because it’s logical. & who ever said it had to be? Who said that’s the correct way?
Come back to me when you have Israeli soldiers mutiliating, torturing, and decapitating three year-olds for sport-and as a blood offering to their God.
What exactly do you call shooting at innocent civilians as if playing a video game?! Or when they drop the white phosporous that mutilated in the hundreds?! Or when the soldiers sexually harass the youth while they’re on their way to school? Or when they have curfews on cities weeks long and raid their homes and kill EVERYONE in their sight?
You can relax yourself because although what happened to that family was tragic, and again, unislamic (smart one), it happened once! NOT EVERYDAY TO SEVERAL FAMILIES IN THE SAME DAY!
Thanks for wasting my time. Go research your “facts” and learn what you’re talking about before you start talking. If you are a human being, you will condemn wrong WHEREVER it is!
enjoy your ignorance or go open a book and learn the truth.
Peace!
Oh yea, and just to clarify, the guy who did the massacre is from Thailand and has no relation to Hamas or any other Palestinian. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!
All praise be to Allah for dead Palestinian children. They weren’t Muslim enough.
Full coverage-including fixed audio and video of David’s speech-at The Silent Majority.
Good for Horowitz. He’s got balls and brains. He understands the totalitarian character of radical Islam. And he’s not afraid to explain why.
I enjoy how “debates” between Muslims and Jews always go off topic flying onto tangents like this. Hilarious! You two are cousins aren’t ya?